Aerosoft Advise: What Hardware To Buy

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

New in October.. not a lot, but I did add an advise at the CPU section and a negative recommendation at the graphics card section. Of course prices for what we advised have on average dropped another few %...

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From this month on we'll publish what we call 'the standard system'. This is what we use in the office (or what some people whould like to have in the office, lol), and is always something around 750 euro. It is designed for FSX and will work great even under demanding conditions. You will see I don't really care a lot about brands or specs and that I try to keep things as simple as possible. It's priced in Euro (with tax) and you might need to shop around to get these prices. In US dollar you can use the same numbers but you probably pay a bit less. Want to hear something extraordinary? When FS2004 launched there was NO WAY you could get acceptable framerates for this money...

CPU (250 / 150 euro)

The brand and sockel is easy. It got to be a Intel chip in a 775 sockel. But after that things depend on what you got to spend and what sim you use. A Core 2 Quad Q9550 has 4 cores running at 2833 Mhz and will make mince meat of even the most demanding modern application. If you got a bit less to spend or only use FS2004 (keep in mind that sim will only use one core) you could go for a Core 2 Duo E8500 that has two cores running at 3166 Mhz and will be great for FS2004. Get the boxed version with the cooler if you just want to fly or get a better cooler if you want to over clock. These chips can handle at least another 300 Mh without any problem.

Newsflash... if are intend to buy a high end system and are willing to pay top price for top performance it might be worthwhile to wait a few weeks for the soon to be released Intel Core i7. This is a totally new chip that will need a new motherboard but first indications are that it will performing up 35% better then current top of the line Quad Core CPU's. Do expect prices up to 950 Euro for the chip but when you know that currently the fastest Intel CPU (QX9770) sells for close to 1200 Euro. So top of the line, 35% faster for 20% less. Now that's what I call progress. Of course this will push other prices down very fast. It is a crying shame that AMD is still not able to create high end cpu that can compete in what we use the chips for.

Graphics card (150 Euro)

It does not happen often but for once it is easy to recommend a graphics card. Anything with a ATI Radeon HD4850 is smashing value for money. There are versions from many vendors but it's all more or less the same card and as long as you get 512 Mb memory you got something hot. Buy anything else at this moment and you are either not paying attention or are looking for the last few fps more and are willing to spend a small fortune for that. For FS2004 even this card to total overkill, anything costing 50 Euro will do and spending more money will not make it any faster. Keep in mind, the CPU determines how many frames, the GPU determines how they look. Ignore people who say they got double the FPS with a new graphics card, they are trying to justify spending a fortune!

We do NOT advise the 9800GTX. The last few weeks we saw a number of problems in FSX with that card with late drivers. It's all a bit sketchy at the moment but I know two simmers who are removing that card this weekend and will replace it with something else.

Memory (60 Euro)

Stop whining and get 4 Gb (in the form of 2 stick of 2Gb). Even though your 32 bit OS might only use 3.something of that. So you wasted 8 euro ... the additional 1.2 Gb will make your OS happy. And you want the OS happy. DDR-2 800 is most likely what you want, don't waste money on memory with coolers or very high specs... unless you overclock very seriously it doesn't matter one little bit.

Harddisk (2x 70 Euro)

Get two 500 Gb SATA disks, it's cheaper and a bit more secure then getting one Tb disk. If you feel like a bit of tweaking set them up in RAID configuration, otherwise just dont bother, use one for your OS and applications and one for your games. Defrag often, before and after installing big stuff. The brand doesn't matter a lot, having a backup does.

Mainboard (100 euro)

Get one with onboard sound and G-lan (though it will be hard to find something without). There are loads of brands and in speed they are all roughly the same but some offer more connections etc. I like my 70 Euro Asus P5N. Does all I want but I would take an Asrock or Abit just as well.

OS (100 euro)

Officially you don't have an option anymore as Windows XP is not sold any more. But you can still get it and if FS is REAL important it should be your choice. Vista is fine though (with 4 Gb of mem) but under conditions you could have some problems. Vista 64 bits, sure why not, you get more usable memory. Forget about using scanners from 1996 though. Vista Home/Business/Ultimate? Most of the time you won't even care. The Home edition is fine.

Box/PSU (75 euro)

Though you might have one, your old box and Power Supply Unit might be old and tired. If you get new goodies get them a nice new box. Try to stick to a brand and get a 550 watt PSU, not less. Forget about those small cases, they are nice if you never have to open them.

Optical Burner (25 euro)

I suggest getting a SATA one so you don;t have to mess with those flat cables anymore. Brand and speed... whatever, how long you normally wait for a DVD to be done? You care?

Monitors (2 x 170 Euro)

Getting two 19 inch monitors will give you 2880x1024 pixels, that's a lot of room to put panels on. Get models with thin edges and don't stare too long at the specs, go to a shop where they got a lot and see what screen you like, then check if it is roughly on middle settings (not full contrast etc). Get two of the same series.

Now this will come to something just over 1000 Euro. But it assumes you start from nothing and most people will have monitors, cases, Windows versions they can use. So for most users it will costs something like 700 to 800 Euro's. For this you get a box that will run FSX great, with framerates over 20 fps in even the most demanding locations. For FS2004 it will be overkill but as there is almost no progress in single core CPU speed you will waste at least half the CPU no matter what you do.

[Nick - Seria17hri11er 0]

Anyone that is flying FSX and considering upgrading there graphics card needs to take a look at this chart here at Tom's Hardware.

As you can see on the page, this benchmark is FSX SP2, 1280x1040, game AA, game AF, Ultra Quality. There are a few more benchmarks of FSX SP2 with different settings that you can look up. Most important to note, is that the NVidia 8800 GTS 512 MB is still the best card for FSX. See for yourself: Tom's Hardware FSX benchmark

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Anyone that is flying FSX and considering upgrading there graphics card needs to take a look at this chart here at Tom's Hardware.

As you can see on the page, this benchmark is FSX SP2, 1280x1040, game AA, game AF, Ultra Quality. There are a few more benchmarks of FSX SP2 with different settings that you can look up. Most important to note, is that the NVidia 8800 GTS 512 MB is still the best card for FSX. See for yourself: Tom's Hardware FSX benchmark

Yes and that's the card I got in one of my machines and it is going to be replaced soon because I just don't buy that statistic. No way a faster card can make FSX slower, that's just not logical, certainly not in the the amounts shown in that statistic. It's Toms Hardware and that used to be a superb site but the last 2 years it has become a sales outlet for hardware with tests that are at best controversial.

I understand it is attractive to use one of the very few statistics that use FSX as a guideline, but not this one.

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Slowly more information about the new Core i7 chips is making the rounds. We are still collecting but I believe it will be possible to get a machine that is between 35% and 75% faster then our advised system for under 1000 euro at the end of the year. That's a major leap in fps because CPU determines fps to a large degree. It's a killer chipset.

[warbird861 0]

Slowly more information about the new Core i7 chips is making the rounds. We are still collecting but I believe it will be possible to get a machine that is between 35% and 75% faster then our advised system for under 1000 euro at the end of the year. That's a major leap in fps because CPU determines fps to a large degree. It's a killer chipset.

I'm very interested in this, I'm just wondering what kind of motherboard it will require

[JamesChams 108]

I'm very interested in this, I'm just wondering what kind of motherboard it will require

Here you go Val; Enjoy!

Motherboard Makers:

Click -> Mainboard_Makers_Ready_for_Core_i7__Report

I use Asus' boards and highly recommend them; but I'm sure others have other preferences.

ASUS:

English:

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,656508/...port_confirmed/

German: [This one's for you Mr. Kok]

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/aid,656388/N...ort_bestaetigt/

[Kiwikat 2]

What do you guys think about these choices? I've decided to go for a cheaper build. I'll be using this mostly for FSX, but will play a shooter every once in a while.

EVGA 750i motherboard (if someone could suggest a cheaper one with 1066/1333 FSB support and is known to overclock the Q6600 well, I'd go for that one)

Q6600 (going to overclock to 3.0+ and use a zalman CPU heatsink/fan, reviews and articles I've read say that a Q6600 at 3.0+ will beat a E8400 or E8500 at 4 ghz)

4 GB DDR2 800

Sapphire 4850 512mb GDDR3

Do you think it would give me good performance with the new F-16?

[warbird861 0]

Here you go Val; Enjoy!

Motherboard Makers:

Click -> Mainboard_Makers_Ready_for_Core_i7__Report

I use Asus' boards and highly recommend them; but I'm sure others have other preferences.

ASUS:

English:

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,656508/...port_confirmed/

German: [This one's for you Mr. Kok]

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/aid,656388/N...ort_bestaetigt/

Thank you James!

I use asus' board also but if I'm going for i7, the price will determine which board I'll buy

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

What do you guys think about these choices? I've decided to go for a cheaper build. I'll be using this mostly for FSX, but will play a shooter every once in a while.

EVGA 750i motherboard (if someone could suggest a cheaper one with 1066/1333 FSB support and is known to overclock the Q6600 well, I'd go for that one)

Q6600 (going to overclock to 3.0+ and use a zalman CPU heatsink/fan, reviews and articles I've read say that a Q6600 at 3.0+ will beat a E8400 or E8500 at 4 ghz)

4 GB DDR2 800

Sapphire 4850 512mb GDDR3

Do you think it would give me good performance with the new F-16?

Yes you will get good performance all around, even on FS2004 with that set.

[Waleed 29]

Some advice please.

I know Mathjis said that the latest drivers for my 9800gtx suck, but I have it for at least one more year, so maybe they will improve.

Fsx with heathrow and vfr london barely run with a standard aircraft. No chance to enjoy the views on approach to heathrow in any of my busses, or the embraer, as it crashes (oom) quickly.

How will I be able to enjoy KJFK with Manhattan, and Insbruck vfr, and LFPG with Paris VFR?

I have a q6600 2.4 with 4gb ram at800, and the 9800gtx, and a 320gb hd.

Would overclocking the quad do any good?

If yes, it comes with a standard fan, so how do I do this.

Keep in mind that I have to buy my hardware from the U.S., and have it shiped to me somehow as it is way overpiced in Dubai, therfore I am basically stuck with my setup for a while.

Thanks.

[palm 0]

Would overclocking the quad do any good?

That would do wonders! CPU is the only thing that matters in FSX basically. With a good cooler you can get 3.6 GHz from a Q6600.

[JamesChams 108]

Some advice please.....

I have a q6600 2.4 with 4gb ram at800, and the 9800gtx, and a 320gb hd.

Would overclocking the quad do any good?

Waleed,

Intel's Extreme Processors are our best choice for overclocking and performance/stability; Although, Intel doesn't recommend it as the chip(s) may get damaged over time especially, for all the standard "E" type processors; I have an extra QX6700 Quad Core 2 Extreme 2.67GHz which you can over clock to almost 4GHz's or so and it comes with Intel's FAN/Heatsink, which might resolve your issues. I've, ofcourse, tested these to be sure they live up to their manufactures claims. If your interested in purchasing, PM me; I'll give you a good discount and I'll throw in the shipping for FREE.

PS: I'm NOT a Business/Merchant/Sales anything; just an owner of one QX6700 Quad Core 2 Extreme 2.67GHz processor for SALE.

[Robert S 75]

Mathijs,

Thanks for posting monthly system recommendations - I think this helps out a vast majority of these forum members a lot.

If I can add my 2 cents (and often that is all my opinion is worth, LOL) is to caution users who are making do with their old cases to be aware of internal temperatures...with these recommended HW specs people should ensure adequate airflow in and out of their cases and maybe even invest in a couple of simple case fans - oftentimes their older cases have the open vents, just not the fans.

As for airflow, one last tip: if you do install case fans, try to ensure the direction of airflow is consistent from the front of the case to the back; in other words, don't install a fan in front that is sucking in air, and install another fan on the side or back ALSO sucking in air - one should be an intake fan and the other should be an exhaust fan!

This is especially relevant if users explore overclocking...

[JamesChams 108]

Mathijs,

Thanks for posting monthly system recommendations - I think this helps out a vast majority of these forum members a lot.

If I can add my 2 cents (and often that is all my opinion is worth, LOL) is to caution users who are making do with their old cases to be aware of internal temperatures...with these recommended HW specs people should ensure adequate airflow in and out of their cases and maybe even invest in a couple of simple case fans - oftentimes their older cases have the open vents, just not the fans.

As for airflow, one last tip: if you do install case fans, try to ensure the direction of airflow is consistent from the front of the case to the back; in other words, don't install a fan in front that is sucking in air, and install another fan on the side or back ALSO sucking in air - one should be an intake fan and the other should be an exhaust fan!

This is especially relevant if users explore overclocking...

This is a good point; also you can do as I have; use water cooling system(s).

[FSXaddict 18]

"35% better then current top of the line Quad Core CPU's"

Wow. I'm glad I read this. I was almost prepared to buy an Intel Q6600 to overclock, along with new mobo and memory. I think I'll wait it out and see what happens. Thanks for the info Mathijs!

[Robert S 75]

This is a good point; also you can do as I have; use water cooling system(s)

Yup, water cooling is definitely the high tech way to go, although not always easily adaptable to older cases...

But for new systems, James has a good point and you can often get that thrown in for free. For example, Cyberpower offers free water cooling on some of their systems...

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Yup, water cooling is definitely the high tech way to go, although not always easily adaptable to older cases...

But for new systems, James has a good point and you can often get that thrown in for free. For example, Cyberpower offers free water cooling on some of their systems...

In my mind watercooling is for freaks and nerds who want to push systems to the limit and spend more time tweaking and soldering then they do actually using the system. It reminds me of a conversation I had with a Intel guy who told me that they did not like CPU's being cooled too much, they design them to run close to max temperature and that's where the chip will perform best. And unlike people think, max temperature is often pretty high. So do I care my CPU is now running at 69 degrees C? Not at all, why should I worry, it's been build for that. When it gets too hot it will shut down itself.

Get a solid CPU, reasonable cooler, overlock it 20% and never think about your CPU core temperature again. Safe the water for for your drinks.

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Mathijs,

Thanks for posting monthly system recommendations - I think this helps out a vast majority of these forum members a lot.

If I can add my 2 cents (and often that is all my opinion is worth, LOL) is to caution users who are making do with their old cases to be aware of internal temperatures...with these recommended HW specs people should ensure adequate airflow in and out of their cases and maybe even invest in a couple of simple case fans - oftentimes their older cases have the open vents, just not the fans.

As for airflow, one last tip: if you do install case fans, try to ensure the direction of airflow is consistent from the front of the case to the back; in other words, don't install a fan in front that is sucking in air, and install another fan on the side or back ALSO sucking in air - one should be an intake fan and the other should be an exhaust fan!

This is especially relevant if users explore overclocking...

Why would you even think about the air flow in your case if you don't have any problems. Look I have been there, I had cases with 5 fans blowing air to every side. I had CPU's with water cooling, I used to worry about the temperature in the case being 49 degrees C. But keeping your CPU will not make it run faster and simply forget about it lasting longer at lower temperatures. As long as you stay under the max temp, it is the difference between the CPU lasting 10 years or 11 years. You care about that? I don't. My CPU's need to last for 3 years max.

Want to hear something funny? Nasa booted a 486 on the Hubble yesterday that had not been started since 1990. 18 years on space and it booted up without a problem. Hopefully it will keep the Hubble going till spare parts arrive in Feb next year.

[Robert S 75]

Why would you even think about the air flow in your case if you don't have any problems. Look I have been there, I had cases with 5 fans blowing air to every side. I had CPU's with water cooling, I used to worry about the temperature in the case being 49 degrees C. But keeping your CPU will not make it run faster and simply forget about it lasting longer at lower temperatures. As long as you stay under the max temp, it is the difference between the CPU lasting 10 years or 11 years. You care about that? I don't. My CPU's need to last for 3 years max.

Want to hear something funny? Nasa booted a 486 on the Hubble yesterday that had not been started since 1990. 18 years on space and it booted up without a problem. Hopefully it will keep the Hubble going till spare parts arrive in Feb next year.

Mathijs,

It's simple: in the situation where someone is using an older case - they add the recommended components - I guarantee that the heat that will be generated will be higher than what their older components generated. Some older cases simply never were designed with airflow management in mind because they never needed to be. And my experience comes directly from a friend that tried just this: he kept his case but swapped everything inside for newer hardware. After about 15 minutes of use, his PC would inexplicably shut down. Turns out the CPU was going into self-protect mode from over-heating...not enough internal cooling (in his case - airflow)

My recommendation is targeted at these users who are using older cases only and after a real world experience, it's valid!

[JamesChams 108]

In my mind watercooling is for freaks and nerds who want to push systems to the limit and spend more time tweaking and soldering then they do actually using the system.... Safe the water for for your drinks.

Yes, just for "nerds"/people like myself, that have a Computer Science/Engineering educational backgrounds. However, you might remember the old principle of physics, which many learn't in your middle/high school days;

"As Heat increases, Resistance Increases, thus Inefficiency Increases" - resulting in an overheated/tired system that locks up and forceably shuts down.

My goal is to keep the CPU happy at a constant temperature that it operates best at and, like you Mr. Kok, I buy new ones every 3 or so years; but the old ones make great gifts. Also, I use FluidXP Extreme for my water cooling and I never bother over-tweaking; that's asking for trouble; stay within the limits, that's my game.

PS: My extra water goes to my tomato plants.

[kadushi 0]

Mathijs, is there a specific reason you didn't choose a three monitor setup? I mean, two 4850's is quite affordable, giving you four monitor outputs.

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Mathijs, is there a specific reason you didn't choose a three monitor setup? I mean, two 4850's is quite affordable, giving you four monitor outputs.

Yes, but three monitors is a bit nerdy don't you think?

If you like three screens why not buy a EEE to use next to your machines? I got a EEE 900 series and I love the damned thing. Not only does it work for a full day without recharging, it's ideal to show some external stuff running over the network on. Only problem with the thing is that my daughter keeps stealing it to watch movies on.

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Yes, just for "nerds"/people like myself, that have a Computer Science/Engineering educational backgrounds. However, you might remember the old principle of physics, which many learn't in your middle/high school days;

"As Heat increases, Resistance Increases, thus Inefficiency Increases" - resulting in an overheated/tired system that locks up and forceably shuts down.

My goal is to keep the CPU happy at a constant temperature that it operates best at and, like you Mr. Kok, I buy new ones every 3 or so years; but the old ones make great gifts. Also, I use FluidXP Extreme for my water cooling and I never bother over-tweaking; that's asking for trouble; stay within the limits, that's my game.

PS: My extra water goes to my tomato plants.

Yes but my overclocked and tweaked system does not lock up and does not get tired. It certainly does not get slower when it runs close to max temperatures. What's more to want? I don't know what FluidXP Extreme is and actually I don't even like to know, lol. If you run a CPU at standard speeds even the simplest $9.99 cooler will do fine. Tweakers and webistes tell you it is a recipy for problems but hundreds of millions of users don't know that, will never know that and will never get into any heat releated problem.

For me a PC is a machine that let's me work and play. It's a tool. It needs to work, that's all. If water cooling is your hobby that's fine, it getting a CPU to run 45% faster then it is made for that fine, but getting a Intell 2.6 Ghz CPU to run at 3 Ghz needs a $19.95 cooler and it will run for a decade.

[kadushi 0]

Yes, but three monitors is a bit nerdy don't you think?

If you like three screens why not buy a EEE to use next to your machines? I got a EEE 900 series and I love the damned thing. Not only does it work for a full day without recharging, it's ideal to show some external stuff running over the network on. Only problem with the thing is that my daughter keeps stealing it to watch movies on.

in fact, I have an eee 900 . What does it show? But for example circuit training, situational awareness (combining it with some sort of trackIR) 2 always gives you the monitor edges right in the middle

[darem 106]

Will an ATI Radeon HD 4850, 1024 MB GDDR3 be good enough for 3360x1050? Is it faster than a 8800GTX?